Moje priprave na tekme jeseni 2012

Sepravi če prav razumem je telo nepotrebno pod višjim stresom če se na dvige posebno pripravljaš oz psiheraš. To se mi zdi logično ker sem bil danes sigurno manj utrujen kot ponavadi dejansko pa sem opravil največ dela v zadnjem času. Seveda pa bo treba vidt kako bo v prihodnje delat zaključke samo po enem treningu je prezgodaj. Psihičnega stresa pa sigurno negre podcenjevat letos sem imel eno situacijo ko sem bil dejansko par ur skupaj neprestano pod hudim stresom da mi je šlo nakoncu že skor na bruhanje. Okoliščin raje nebi razlagal Skratka ko sem zvečer tega dne hotu opravit trening so bile delovne teže za min 30% nižje in občutek je bil grozen kot da bi bil v drugem telesu ki sploh ne sodeluje čeprav se pred samim treningom nisem počutil posebaj slabo. Sicer rahla nervoza med treningom ni niti blizu omenjeni situaciji ampak vrjetno pa se na daljši rok pozna če to karseda izključiš ?

ok že 2 dni berem zadnji 2 strani dnevnika in hočem nekaj vprašati (ampak ob tem ne izpasti ignorantsko/žaljivo/na kakršen koli način neprimerno)...

Zanima me, zakaj živčnost pred dvigi?
Je to strah pred poškodbo ali pač strah pred failom

še enkrat...nikakor ne "disrespectam" tega občutka, zanima me samo, o čem oz. kakšni živčnosti je vbistvu govora

ok že 2 dni berem zadnji 2 strani dnevnika in hočem nekaj vprašati (ampak ob tem ne izpasti ignorantsko/žaljivo/na kakršen koli način neprimerno)...

Zanima me, zakaj živčnost pred dvigi?
Je to strah pred poškodbo ali pač strah pred failom

še enkrat...nikakor ne "disrespectam" tega občutka, zanima me samo, o čem oz. kakšni živčnosti je vbistvu govora

Živčnost pred glavnimi dvigi je nekaj, s čimer se na določeni stopnji sreča vsak. Z mnogimi sem se že pogovarjal in marsikdo je živčen že dan pred treningom, za katerega ve, da bo težek.

Ta živčnost je po mojem opažanju odziv na psihični pritisk, ki ga načrtovani dvig povzroča. Če imaš na palici težo, ki je še nikoli nisi dvignil ali pa če imaš na palici težo s katero moraš narediti 5 serij, a je bila že prva hudičevo težka. Ali če treniraš z določenimi procenti in se ta dan pač ne počutiš najbolje.

Vse skupaj je povezano z zastavljanjem ciljev, in kadar ciljev ne moreš izpolniti, je posledica frustracija (to je zdaj dejansko že psihologija ). Če se ti pogosto dogaja, da zastavljenega ne izpolniš, si frustriran in naslednjič, ko si v podobni situaciji, sta psihični pritisk in živčnost še toliko hujša.

Seveda tega ni v taki meri pri vseh. Odvisno je od človeka (osebnosti) in tudi dviga. Da bi bil kdo pod pritiskom zaradi biceps curla še tudi nisem slišal. No, možno pa je.

So pa še druge blokade, ki jih imamo ljudje v glavi - ena je ta, ki si jo omenila - poškodba. Sam s tem nimam težav, ker se pri dvigih, ki jih opravljam še nikoli nisem poškodoval, niti načel.
Druga je, da če ne opraviš dviga, veš da te čaka odmet palice (npr. pri počepu) in čeprav ni nevarno, tudi prijetno ni obstati v luknji. Reševanja tega problema se nekateri lotijo enako kot jaz - klin se s klinom zbija - in načrtno zelo pogosto failajo.


Wade,
Ja, tako kaže in moje razmišljanje v zadnjih mesecih gre v to smer. Glede na debate tipa "CNS ne obstaja" in "pazi, da ne pretreniraš", je logično, da to področje še ni povsem jasno. Sam menim, da je razlog za "skurjenost" - občutek izgorelosti psihološke narave oz. vsaj kombiniran. To pomeni, da če nekaj doživljamo kot stres, je to dejansko tudi stres in to nas ožame.

Kakšen je tvoj odziv, ko vidiš 200 kg na palici za naslednjo serijo deadlifta? Se začneš tresti, se ti dvigne pulz, začneš hoditi sem in tja, te pritisne na wc? Ko pristopiš k palici, se začneš psihirati, v mislih govoriti vse mogoče kletvice, da se motiviraš in prosiš prijatelja, da te lopne po hrbtu? Ali pa enostavno dvigneš in je to "le še eden izmed dvigov".
Kdo bo na koncu bolj ožet in kdo bo prej rekel "danes je bilo pa res naporno"?

Zelo dobro moje razmišljanje povzame Matt Perryman (priporočam branje citiranega besedila!):

After a very heavy workout — heavy as in using weights very close to maximum or setting a PR — it’s normal to feel exhausted. You might feel wiped out, like a dead battery with no juice left. Usually this happens along with feelings of lethargy and lack of motivation.

You’re most likely to experience this after a competition. Those of you who love to train on stimulants and who constantly try to beat last week’s records will be no stranger to burn-out. There’s no question that training to your absolute max at every opportunity is going to wear you down over time. Zatsiorsky called the burn-out of constant maxing ‘staleness’.

Here we run into a terminology issue. What is a ‘maximum’? The Russians defined a 1RM as your best in competition, the absolute best you could achieve on the platform, with all the stress of being in front of a crowd. By some accounts, ‘meet nerves’ could add a spectacular 10% to a lifter’s numbers.

The Bulgarians used a different definition, calling for the best you can do right now, casually. No getting excited, no adrenaline rush, no elevated heart rate. No sitting in the corner brooding over speed metal for 15 minutes before hitting the lift. You just go do it, calm as you can. If you can’t hit it without getting nervous, it’s over your max for the day by definition.

The difference in the two is so substantial that we distinguish between contest maximums (Cmax) and training maximums (Tmax). The dividing line is apprehension. By getting nervous, we switch on the stress response. By treating the lift as a potential threat (nobody wants to get caught under a max squat or bench), we add a new dimension to the problem.

Zatsiorsky acknowledged that staleness comes about largely due to frequent training with Cmax attempts. In comparison, the Tmax (or daily max) represents far less of a stress. Intriguingly, it doesn’t appear to be the weight that burns you out — rather, it’s your response to the weight.

When you recognize that bar sitting on the floor as a maximum deadlift, you get nervous. Stress systems come online, and the central governor knows something’s happening based on that feedback. But if the stress response never happens, will the governor react the same way?

Say it’s not a PR-attempt, but only a pull at 90% of your best-ever deadlift. You could easily argue that a PR is inseparable from getting nervous. But 90%, you should be able to hit that without getting meet-nerves. Will pulling 90%, calm, have the same effect on the central governor?

The common assumption is that lifting anything heavy-enough causes CNS fatigue. Yet there is virtually no evidence to back that belief. So I ask, why must CNS fatigue result from any heavy attempts? Is there any reason to believe this, besides the inertia of tradition? Why must it be the weight, rather than your psychological response to the weight?

I don’t dispute that a true contest maximum will involve psychological arousal and emotional stress. What I believe is that the arrow of causality is reversed. It isn’t that a new record causes CNS fatigue ipso facto; rather, we can’t separate a maximum performance from our own reactions.

I’m suggesting that, in training, we can separate the psychological stress from the physical stress; and with practice, we can learn to fine-tune our psychological reactions to control the stress response. It’s highly unlikely that central fatigue has an on/off switch, as opposed to a sliding scale. If we can learn to minimize the emotional stress, then we can dramatically reduce both the short- and long-term effects of CNS fatigue.

Zadnji odstavek je tisto, kar trenutno počnem jaz.

Kakšen je tvoj odziv, ko vidiš 200 kg na palici za naslednjo serijo deadlifta? Se začneš tresti, se ti dvigne pulz, začneš hoditi sem in tja, te pritisne na wc? Ko pristopiš k palici, se začneš psihirati, v mislih govoriti vse mogoče kletvice, da se motiviraš in prosiš prijatelja, da te lopne po hrbtu? Ali pa enostavno dvigneš in je to "le še eden izmed dvigov".
Kdo bo na koncu bolj ožet in kdo bo prej rekel "danes je bilo pa res naporno"?

Tuki se jst vidm

Matt Perryman je drugače dosti v nevroznanosti, zato se mi zdi ta teorija še toliko verjetnejša.

Še odsek iz enega njegovega članka na temo dojemanja samega stresa:

. . .
If you see a PR weight and get scared of it, then you’ve scaled that weight in your mind and your output — your strength — scales with it. This is not a tremendous effect, but it can mean the difference in six reps and 10 reps, or hitting that new 1RM and missing it halfway.

This is why training on stimulants is so popular. For years I’d always lift with 25mg of ephedrine in my system and the loudest metal I could find blasting in my ears. Stimulants and psyching up with music are ways of artificially elevating neural-mental arousal, and that arousal level translates to automatically higher output. It doesn’t make you “stronger”, but it does take the parking brake off and help you do the best you’re capable of doing. The weights literally feel lighter and that translates to higher neural output.

I don’t care for that any more. I’m finding that training is far more effective by relaxing and taking as much of that “effort” out of it as I can. I’ve written recently about Baumeister’s willpower research, and while I’ll spare you the in-depth science, I’m convinced that our rational selves — the self-regulatory capacity or “will” — are more closely related to day-to-day performance than we realize. This willpower capacity is limited, easily depleted when overused, and probably related to many of the same neural circuits governing both motor drive and perception of effort.

The analogy I’ve often used is a long car trip or a day of hard concentration. You didn’t “do” anything, but you feel wiped out anyway. Sap that mental capacity, through whatever activity, and you feel wiped out. You aren’t experiencing “CNS fatigue”. You’ve temporarily exhausted your capacity to “switch it on” and focus yourself, potentially leaving your weights for the day that much “heavier” (at least within the 5-10 percentage points that motor drive accounts for).

The insight here is that nothing is actually “fatigued”. The “fatigue” thinking is the same half-hearted quasi-science that gets us vague terms like “toxin” and the New Agey quack treatments meant to fix said ailments. In this case the “exhaustion” is meant to be taken metaphorically — it’s a feeling, something you experience mentally, but there is no “fatigue” happening in the biological sense. The brain’s activity changes; it does not fatigue.

The trick is to learn how to scale. A depressing number of people seem to have no gears under the hood — they’re either going at maximum or sitting on the couch. A cynical observer would consider this a built-in flaw in the character of exercisers, but I’m going to be more upbeat and assume that the lack of effort-grading ability is a failing of the culture and the people doing the teaching. Very few even realize this is an issue, let alone a skill that can be taught.

Most folks treat exercise with aggression. It’s a challenge to be conquered, a threat to be overcome. Stimulants and aggressive psych-up are meant to mask this understood need to “declare war” on the weights, filling in for “natural energy” on days when you don’t feel so great. You’ve created an antagonistic relationship before you even touch the thing, and that brings us back to training relaxed.

Treating the weight as your adversary means that, by definition, it’s an emotional challenge. Emotion depletes willpower, and emotion triggers physical stress.

Learn to be cool. When you can just lift, without all the mental arousal and emotional energy, you’ve changed the perception. You aren’t competing with the weight and, as Noakes found, you’re no longer scaling your performance to the expectation. Being around others and competing against them (whether you realize it or not) is good. Battling your training weights is not.

Leaving the emotion out helps scale back physical stress. Much of what people naively call “CNS fatigue” is really just feeling bad after a hard workout. There are reasons for this, having to do with certain feedback loops between your brain and the immune system, but this is not “CNS fatigue” in any real sense. You just feel bad because your body is trying to cope with what it perceived as a threat.

There’s no harm in using the occasional “high” day to let some adrenaline out and see what you can do. Even here, though, it should be more about focusing your energy into the lift, rather than trying to “beat” the bar.

What the central governor tells us is that perception is a large part of performance. Most of the time, it’s better to stay cool and “just lift” instead of competing with the weights. Take your mind out of the process, listen to some soothing chillout tracks, and just do the thing.

(vir: http://www.myosynthesis.com)

Hmmm tole je možno samo pri moški populaciji ane?
Oz. redkokatera ženska bi doživljala tak hud stres če bo lahko dvignila zastavljene teže ali ne...
Mene je tudi še vedno "strah" pred počepom, če bo slučajno spet kaj narobe z mojo golenico, ker nočem spet zafurat vsega in potem štartat od začetka... Zato vedno rabim nekoga, da stoji za mano. Pa samo če stoji (zadnjič mi je uspelo, da sem vse sama dvignila, samo pri zadnji ponovitvi je bilo treba pomagat)
Ampak ok, jaz ne dvigujem velikih tež...
Včasih pride en tip na fitnes in se stalno nekaj razburja pred štango, ker ne more dvignit. Mi je bilo malo smešno prej, zdaj pa vidim da je to pomoje to :/

zna bit dejansko zanimivo tole super da odpiraš takšne teme

Šuša, ne bi rekel, da samo pri moških. Tudi ženske lahko imajo enako "težavo", če imajo takšno osebnost/temperament. Je pač tako, da so moški načeloma bolj tekmovalni (tudi sami s seboj) in agresivni. Kot sem rekel - niso vsi taki. Če tega ne opažaš pri sebi - super. Dolgoročno si na odlični poti!
Mogoče pa kaj iz prve roke pove še Polona, glede na to, da počepa s težami, ki bi večini moških kolegov bile huuuud izziv.

BTW, kost se je že zdavnaj zacelila - nimaš kaj skrbeti.

Mja, saj vem, sam vseeno... ta filing, ker sem enkrat dala že to čez pa ne bi še enkrat..
Ma daaj ti nisi agresiven

Polona piše dnevnik??? Kje? Da vidim

zanimivo. jaz te živčnosti že dolgo nimam tu se mi zdi, da dosti pripomore, da verjameš vase, v program po katerem delaš(zato je pomembno imeti dober program!) in se ne obremenjuješ stem, če boš failal oz. sploh ne razmišljaš o tem ali karkoli. enostavno imam v glavi kar moram narediti, se sfokusiram, grem miselno čez(kot je omenil Končina) in naredim odločno, suvereno. pol je pa še tu motivacija in sploh neko sproščeno življenje!!-da se ne obremenjuješ z rečmi, sploh pa tistimi nepomembnimi, kar ogromno ljudi dela...

moja 2 centa